Episode #1: Salvadorian Illustrator & Tattoo Artist So Lazo

Episode Summary:

In this episode, I chat with Salvadoran illustrator So Lazo. So is an Illustrator and tattoo artist from tiny, tropical El Salvador who immigrated to Berlin, Germany in 2021. They're also the author of two illustrated books and have had their own brand of illustrated products available on Etsy since 2016. I'm really excited to have So on the show, so keep on listening to hear us talk about their experience moving to Berlin, their advice for finding your voice, and running an Etsy shop using drop shipping.

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Episode Links

🎨 Guest Links: So Lazo’s Instagram, TikTok, & Etsy Shop

🍊 Host Links: Follow Fabiola on Instagram, Youtube, & TikTok

Episode Notes:

If you’ve ever been curious about what it would be like to move to Berlin as a creative, this episode is made for you!

In this episode, I chat with Salvadoran illustrator and tattoo artist So Lazo. So decided to leave El Salvador and has just celebrated their 1 year anniversary in Berlin. Throughout the show, we chat all about why they chose to immigrate to Berlin and exactly how they were able to prepare for such a big international move.

We also go over how they found their way to illustration during their University years, and how they were able to launch their illustration business via Etsy in El Salvador. So also kindly shares their experience custom printing products for their online shop and talks all about why they are enjoying using print-on-demand services to fulfill their Etsy orders.

Nowadays, So is focused on running their online shop using a mixture of print-on-demand products and custom-made products to balance their inventory, while still investing in the personal projects that bring them the most creative joy.

Tune into this episode to hear So and I talk about why they left El Salvador, what they recommend for finding your personal creative voice, and exactly how they run their online shop.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, or on your favorite podcast platform.

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Topics Covered:

1. Moving to Berlin as an artist

2. Their experience as a non-binary and queer person in Berlin, Germany

3. Their experience as an immigrant in Germany

4. How their parents supported them during their University studies

5. Switching from Product Design to Graphic Design halfway through their University career

6. Why they never grew out of their emo phase and how it influences their artwork

7. Advice for getting in touch with your own artistic voice in order to create personal work

8. Launching an Etsy shop from El Salvador

9. Benefits of using print-on-demand and drop-shipping to run an illustration online shop

10. The pros and cons of using print-on-demand services

11. Developing a custom tarot deck

12. Designing and launching their plushy Claude the Clown Cloud with MakeShip

• Click to View Transcript (auto-generated):

  00:00:06:04 - 00:00:32:13

  Fabiola Lara

  I have friends that you're listening to season two of Draws in Spanish. If this is your first time listening. Hi, welcome. Thanks so much for being here. My name is Fabiola Lara. That's Fabiola Lara and on [Draws in Spanish] I chat with Latinx visual.

  00:00:34:15 - 00:01:00:24

  Fabiola Lara

  Today we have So Lazo on the show. So is an illustrator and tattoo artist from tiny tropical El Salvador, now based in Berlin. They are also the author of two illustrated books and have their own brand of illustrated products on Etsy since 2016. Of course, So also does a bunch of freelance work creating illustrations for clothing, pattern design and of course editorial illustration.

  00:01:01:06 - 00:01:25:10

  Fabiola Lara

  I am so excited to have so on this show. So keep on listening to hear us talk about their experience moving to Berlin from El Salvador. Their advice for finding your voice in your creative work and their experience running an Etsy shop from a set of looks and moving it to Berlin. All right. So keep on listening to hear our conversation.

  00:01:29:07 - 00:01:40:10

  Fabiola Lara

  Thanks so much for being here with me today. So I'm so excited to have you as one of the first guests for season two of Draws in Spanish. How are you doing? How are you feeling? What's going on?

  00:01:41:15 - 00:01:48:00

  So Lazo

  I'm good. I'm doing great. And thank you for having me and inviting me. I'm very excited and a little bit nervous.

  00:01:48:00 - 00:01:49:08

  Speaker 3

  Maybe it's.

  00:01:49:08 - 00:01:57:23

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay. Don't worry about it. This is, you know, a friendly space. We're just going to talk about all about you, essentially.

  00:01:57:23 - 00:01:58:14

  Speaker 3

  Okay. Okay.

  00:01:59:05 - 00:02:11:25

  Fabiola Lara

  To to start things off, I like to ask people to do a little introduction so that people who don't know about your work and about you get a little bit more information. So give us a little quick intro.

  00:02:12:29 - 00:02:39:12

  So Lazo

  Okay. So my name is also in I'm from El Salvador in Central America. It's a very, very tiny, tiny country, very tropical. And I am an illustrator. Well, officially, I'm a graphic designer. That's what I studied. But ever since I graduated, I've been only dedicated to illustration mostly. Mostly for like my online shop, which is on Etsy. And I've had that for seven years now.

  00:02:39:12 - 00:02:56:04

  So Lazo

  So that's like my main thing. And then just occasionally do freelance work. I also have like a couple of books that I published so far and. Oh, and I'm also a tattoo artist. Yeah, that's like on the side. So yeah.

  00:02:56:04 - 00:02:56:15

  Speaker 3

  On the.

  00:02:56:15 - 00:03:12:05

  Fabiola Lara

  Side. You have a lot going on to have something extra on the side. But I love it. I feel like, you know, that is what it is to be like a modern day artist. You have like a lot of different things that you have to juggle all the time. So one of the first things I want to talk to you about is.

  00:03:12:18 - 00:03:13:07

  Speaker 3

  You moved.

  00:03:13:07 - 00:03:27:13

  Fabiola Lara

  To Berlin. Like, I feel like I need to know more. What took you to Berlin? Tell me just a little bit more about why you went from El Salvador to Berlin, which is a, you know, a big distance and a big cultural difference, too.

  00:03:28:27 - 00:03:55:05

  So Lazo

  Yeah, well, it's I love it is it's really a beautiful country, you know, like full of beaches and mountains and nature. And the people are great. But for an artist, it's kind of very difficult to actually make a living of that living there. Because for me, most of my clients and most of the people that buy my products, they're actually from other countries.

  00:03:55:05 - 00:04:20:27

  So Lazo

  It's more like an international thing. And so it didn't I didn't have enough opportunities back home or like a space to grow or resources and all of that. And ever since I was little like, my parents were always pushing me to tell me to go study someplace else or go and live in another country for a little bit because they had that experience when they were in college.

  00:04:21:13 - 00:04:46:25

  So Lazo

  And well, I wasn't able to study outside. I study them and so I bother, but I only I always had that like, you know, I would like to live in another country and know how it is and meet a different culture. And I was lucky enough that I was able to travel to different countries, mostly in America, you know, United States, Mexico, Colombia, all of Central America and then here to Europe.

  00:04:46:25 - 00:04:57:18

  So Lazo

  I came for the first time like three years ago. I was invited to tattooing a studio in Paris. And so I was my first time here. And yeah, it was so exciting.

  00:04:57:18 - 00:04:58:09

  Speaker 3

  That's so.

  00:04:58:09 - 00:04:58:27

  Fabiola Lara

  Cool how.

  00:04:59:05 - 00:05:32:03

  So Lazo

  You were around. Yeah, I know. I was super surprising for me, but I came for a month and a half, something like that, and while I was here I was like, I got to meet, I got to get to know a couple of other countries since I'm already in Europe. And I went to Italy and then I came here to Berlin because I have a friend that lives here and ever since the first day, I don't know, there was just something about the city that made me feel like this is where I want to live, like I want to move here.

  00:05:32:03 - 00:05:41:00

  So Lazo

  And so two years ago I made that decision and I finally moved here in September last year. Right now, it's almost a year living in Berlin.

  00:05:41:12 - 00:06:09:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Oh, my gosh. That's so inspiring. I feel like a lot of people have that feeling where you go somewhere and you're like, Oh, this place is amazing. Imagine if I lived here. But very few people actually do it because emotionally it's a lot. Financially it's a lot. It's just a lot in so many different ways. So I am like props to you for getting that done and I know it has to be like hard.

  00:06:10:24 - 00:06:20:18

  Fabiola Lara

  I wanted to ask you, was there anything that like shocked or surprised you about culture in Berlin that is like very different from insular.

  00:06:22:12 - 00:06:43:05

  So Lazo

  With definitely like very different but in a good way because honestly, the thing that I love the most is just being able to walk on the street and live like super and feel safe because we have that issue our time that sometimes it's not so safe to just walk on the streets or use public transportation. That's another thing like, I hate driving.

  00:06:43:05 - 00:07:04:04

  So Lazo

  I mean, inside where they you have to drive everywhere. Like everyone has a car, everyone has to drive. And so I hate it. So right now I just yeah, I walk around and I use the metro and everything's perfect that Berlin has like a lot of features, like, any other big city, but it's still way, way different than back home.

  00:07:04:04 - 00:07:34:03

  So Lazo

  And there's something else that I love there. It's like this feeling of freedom that you get here like everyone can dress however they want, they can be whoever they are. And it's not it's not as dangerous or as unsafe that in other parts. And yeah, I just love that energy. And for example, it's very cliche, but I do love New York like I've been able to visit several times and and I love it, but it's so chaotic.

  00:07:34:18 - 00:07:35:16

  Fabiola Lara

  And yeah.

  00:07:35:28 - 00:07:50:20

  So Lazo

  I think that Berlin is like a similar rate version, but it's way, way more to it's like not as crazy, but there's a still a really, really amazing art in people and, you know, a lot of places. So that's why I decided to come here.

  00:07:51:09 - 00:08:14:10

  Fabiola Lara

  And yes, I feel like, yeah, New York is so tiring and the trains are horrible and the infrastructure is horrible. So I could definitely see how Berlin is way better in that regard. I would I wanted to know like I know and anyone who follows you on Instagram or on TikTok knows this, that you haven't incredible fashion sense.

  00:08:14:18 - 00:08:22:21

  Fabiola Lara

  And even right here, if you're watching us on Twitter, you can see Sol's outfit. It's incredible. I love the.

  00:08:22:21 - 00:08:27:15

  Speaker 3

  Logo. I don't know what it's called. Plans. Yeah. Coming out of your head. It is so cute.

  00:08:27:25 - 00:08:38:26

  Fabiola Lara

  So do you think that I know you've had this, like, fashion style since before you moved to Berlin, but has it been easier in Berlin? Have you been able to do more or anything like that?

  00:08:39:15 - 00:09:03:08

  So Lazo

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, I been like experimenting with my fashion and my look since I was maybe 15 years old. But it was harder back home because people like there a lot more and kind of more judgy about it. And you're like, no one really cares. Like, they really don't care. They don't. They're like, maybe they just do for a second and then it's like, okay, they don't care.

  00:09:03:08 - 00:09:03:20

  So Lazo

  And I love.

  00:09:03:27 - 00:09:04:05

  Speaker 3

  That's.

  00:09:04:05 - 00:09:07:23

  Fabiola Lara

  So liberating, right? Because they feel like you can do way more.

  00:09:08:12 - 00:09:37:12

  So Lazo

  Yeah. So even though I've only been here for a little bit with less than a year, I can see how my style has already changed a lot. Like it's even more out there. And, and not only that, but I have, I have more access to like other types of brands and alternative fashion and all of that, which at first was a little bit of a problem because I was like, I want everything.

  00:09:37:12 - 00:09:48:27

  So Lazo

  So right now I learned to control myself because yeah, I was getting a bit too much. But yeah, I do love that it's I have access to, to all types of things that I didn't have back home.

  00:09:49:26 - 00:10:13:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Wow, that is so cool. I feel like you have like it's a whole new world for you now in Berlin when it comes to at least fashion and everything, do you think that it's, you know, going off of that a little bit easier to be queer and nonbinary in Berlin versus El Salvador? I don't know what specific town in El Salvador from.

  00:10:13:22 - 00:10:39:04

  So Lazo

  But I'm from the capital city, it's in San Salvador. And yeah, I, we have the pride march every June and it's been amazing seeing how it grows each year. Like I started going maybe around five or four years ago to the march and yeah, like it's year, it was just getting bigger and bigger and that that made me really happy as well.

  00:10:39:18 - 00:11:06:00

  So Lazo

  But there still a lot of challenges now that queer people face a lot of discrimination and even like violence, mostly when it comes to trans women. And there's like a long way to go there. But people are still fighting in here. It's a bit of the opposite. You know, like they had like three marches here. I went to three of them.

  00:11:06:12 - 00:11:31:13

  So Lazo

  There was like the dike march and they were the pride march and then the trans smart. And it was in July. So like a little while ago. And it was it was a party like back home. It's more of a protest is a march and here's like a celebration because they already have accomplished a lot of things. So it's mostly a party, but it's still a challenge mostly for immigrants, I think.

  00:11:31:13 - 00:11:40:10

  So Lazo

  Especially like people of color. Yeah, that's still kind of kind of a problem because, like, we can still face more discrimination because of it.

  00:11:40:11 - 00:12:03:19

  Fabiola Lara

  Definitely. Definitely. I feel like, you know, how beautiful that you can celebrate celebrate in Berlin, right? Your identity and being queer and really just like enjoy it. But it's still so sad that El Salvador, you can or you can, but it's still, like you said, a fight, right? Versus a celebration. You're like, you know, you can't be as comfortable.

  00:12:03:19 - 00:12:33:27

  Fabiola Lara

  Maybe, but I'm glad that you're experiencing, I guess, the Berlin version for a while. And I wanted to talk more about this that you mentioned about discrimination towards immigrants and even queer immigrants. How do you think how has your experience been in Berlin as an immigrant? Because I think it's so different anywhere you go, right? Like I was an immigrant in the U.S. and it's but I'm so light skinned that it's like I have a totally different experience than maybe you have.

  00:12:33:27 - 00:12:42:12

  Fabiola Lara

  You just, you know, a couple of shades darker than me. And maybe that's harder for you in Berlin. I'm so curious just to know what it's been like for you.

  00:12:43:08 - 00:13:09:18

  So Lazo

  Well, personally, I haven't had like any bad experiences, at least that I that I think that it's because of my my skin color, because of being an immigrant. I've only had like maybe a couple of situations where they maybe look at me better or something, but it's mostly because there are places where people just don't speak English. So we kind of get annoyed because of that.

  00:13:09:27 - 00:13:33:27

  So Lazo

  But I don't know, I don't really know if if we do have to do well with my nationality as well or not. But so nothing like that has happened to me. But I have heard of other people, you know, like for example, yeah, trans people mostly that have had several experiences in the streets where people maybe yell at them things or tried to do something.

  00:13:33:27 - 00:13:37:17

  So Lazo

  But like, personally, I haven't experienced that here.

  00:13:38:24 - 00:14:00:07

  Fabiola Lara

  Well, I'm glad. I hope you never experiences. I really do. And I think like you also as an immigrant, you never know, you know, if it's because you're because of language or because of the way you look or because of your gender identity or because of your sexuality. Like you just don't know why you're being this.

  00:14:00:26 - 00:14:01:14

  Speaker 3

  Yeah. Yeah.

  00:14:02:23 - 00:14:09:21

  Fabiola Lara

  So you're like, is it that or is it you just don't like me? Like, what's going on? Is it my earrings? Like, who knows?

  00:14:09:21 - 00:14:12:21

  So Lazo

  But it's how I dress.

  00:14:12:21 - 00:14:14:28

  Fabiola Lara

  Is it how I dress or is it me as a human? Like, who.

  00:14:14:28 - 00:14:15:07

  Speaker 3

  Knows?

  00:14:15:18 - 00:14:27:23

  Fabiola Lara

  But I hope that, you know, it's you never experienced anything like that. And I think, you know, would you say overall that you appreciate having moved to Berlin despite any of the challenges that it comes with?

  00:14:28:24 - 00:14:53:05

  So Lazo

  Yeah, I'm a it's just so different and it's kind of sad in the sense that I realized that the quality of life is over for most people. It's really not not like we don't have access to all this freedom to all these public spaces. Like I love the city because it's also very green and there are parks everywhere where you can just go into.

  00:14:53:18 - 00:15:14:04

  So Lazo

  And even that it's like, I don't really have that back home, like for example, in the city mostly. And you had to go outside the city, which is like an hour drive to maybe the beach or something, but even the beaches, it's like everything is privatized. So. So yeah, it's like you have to spend money. Yeah.

  00:15:14:20 - 00:15:36:18

  Fabiola Lara

  Right. It's all about money, essentially. Like, who can get to enjoy what? That's sad. And I hope that anyone in El Salvador listening is inspired by your story and maybe can be encouraged to leave if they can. If they want to. You know, because I know that for a lot of people they want to, but maybe, you know, they don't have the means to leave.

  00:15:36:18 - 00:16:00:22

  Fabiola Lara

  And that's a whole other story. So you guys, if you don't know at the end of season one, I won 20 $500 from podcast. So this episode is actually brought to you by podcast as a collaboration between Racket and Stir. Honestly, this was a really big deal for me as an indie podcaster because it validated the mission of the show and the money obviously helps.

  00:16:00:29 - 00:16:25:20

  Fabiola Lara

  Since I put my heart, energy and time into the show, I just wanted to thank podcast for awarding me this prize and if you've never heard of podcasts, podcasts is exactly what it sounds like. Free cash for your podcast. They gave away $100,000 to up and coming podcasters as a way to support insanely creative and inspiring podcasters because they know how hard it is to get an indie podcast off the ground.

  00:16:26:09 - 00:16:52:27

  Fabiola Lara

  So if podcasting has been on your to do list or you're already a podcaster looking for a little funding, go to podcast dot com to stay up to date with future podcast happenings. That's P.O.D. see a sitcom. All right, let's get back into the show. You guys, were you able to leave just through? Did you go to school or anything like that or were you able to just do it on your own?

  00:16:53:00 - 00:16:56:17

  Fabiola Lara

  I'm just asking for anyone listening who was like, how did you do it?

  00:16:57:08 - 00:16:58:07

  Speaker 3

  Okay.

  00:16:58:07 - 00:17:18:09

  So Lazo

  Well, the fact they had that idea of moving since I was little in, my parents always taught me like to save money. They always did that. So I learned at a very young age that I should do that. So ever since I started working and I started with my brand in my shop when I was in college and doing freelance projects.

  00:17:18:09 - 00:17:37:15

  So Lazo

  And yeah, ever since I started, I always save, save, save my money. But also I was lucky that my parents paid for my education. So, you know, I didn't have to worry about that. And I, I work because I wanted to, not because I had to pay anything. Like they pay my education and their house and food and everything.

  00:17:37:15 - 00:17:57:00

  So Lazo

  That was the reason why I was able to save money as well. And I know a lot of people don't really have that look and it's a privilege to be able to do that. But I always tell my friends, because a lot of people want to move out from El Salvador, which is it's very sad, but it's the reality.

  00:17:57:00 - 00:18:19:11

  So Lazo

  And so I always encourage them, you know, try to save money as it's like a small percentage of what you get each month. Like you can do it like you really can, but you have to do that for it takes time. And that's what's most frustrating I think for a lot of people. That is it takes time and it's not something that happens like from one month to another or even a year to another.

  00:18:19:17 - 00:18:40:12

  Fabiola Lara

  So definitely that it's a long it's a long game. You have to really commit for a long time. Do you think now that you've been in Berlin for almost a year, that you feel adjusted to Berlin, or do you still feel like a weird about just being there and not being in El Salvador and how is that feeling for you?

  00:18:41:13 - 00:18:52:21

  So Lazo

  It's weird because of course I miss my friends and I miss my family like a lot. A lot. But that's the only thing that I miss right now.

  00:18:52:21 - 00:18:55:23

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, it's great. I'm so glad the say.

  00:18:56:08 - 00:19:19:15

  So Lazo

  Yeah, I'm not fully adjusted yet. I came here without knowing any German at all. So I got into German classes and I've been going for like four months. So it really does make a difference. You know, like I feel a little bit more confident because the first time that I went to the supermarket and I was just, I didn't understand anything.

  00:19:19:15 - 00:19:24:22

  So Lazo

  Like I didn't know if that was soap or if it was shampoo or any of that.

  00:19:25:14 - 00:19:29:12

  Speaker 3

  It was very weird that. I love that. No, I mean.

  00:19:29:22 - 00:19:31:15

  Fabiola Lara

  I feel sorry for you, but.

  00:19:31:15 - 00:19:33:01

  Speaker 3

  I also feel like that is.

  00:19:33:14 - 00:19:40:14

  Fabiola Lara

  Is like such a special experience to go from. You know, you lived in El Salvador only before that, right?

  00:19:41:00 - 00:19:41:28

  So Lazo

  Yeah, my whole life.

  00:19:42:21 - 00:20:11:25

  Fabiola Lara

  So then to get put into a whole different country and culture, it is such a weird experience and but also so fun because everything is random. Everything feels different every single day. And now that you've taken the German classes, I'm sure like you said, you're more confident, but like how beautiful to experience being so, like childlike, like you're so new and having, you know, that is a cool thing to be able to experience in adulthood.

  00:20:11:25 - 00:20:14:04

  Fabiola Lara

  Just being like, I don't know.

  00:20:14:13 - 00:20:21:15

  Speaker 3

  What anyone is happy about. I mean, nothing. And you know, anything. Yeah.

  00:20:21:15 - 00:20:26:05

  So Lazo

  And we don't have winter, you know, so. So that was my first real winter.

  00:20:26:13 - 00:20:31:03

  Speaker 3

  It was cold spoke so what did you do? Did you even.

  00:20:31:03 - 00:20:32:01

  Fabiola Lara

  Know how to buy a.

  00:20:32:01 - 00:20:34:01

  Speaker 3

  Coat correctly? Well, yeah.

  00:20:34:01 - 00:20:49:23

  So Lazo

  I had to buy everything because I didn't have any type of coats or a thermal clothing like none of no. So I arrived in September, so I was four. And then like in November, it started getting very, very cold and they had to buy a lot of things for that.

  00:20:50:12 - 00:21:16:10

  Fabiola Lara

  So and I think something that I grew up in Florida and now I live in Philadelphia, which is close to New York, which is gets has winter. Florida has no winter. So I feel you with this. And I think something that we people forget is like winter clothing is so expensive. Yeah, like good winter clothing. And that's something that I had no idea about because in Florida, you buy a jacket.

  00:21:16:10 - 00:21:31:15

  Fabiola Lara

  It's like, I don't know, just a random jacket is good enough. But to get a good coat that's going to keep you warm, that's like can be more, you know, can be 100, 200, $300 just for one item. So I feel like that's shocking.

  00:21:32:07 - 00:21:35:06

  Speaker 3

  No, but.

  00:21:35:06 - 00:21:48:20

  So Lazo

  There was like is no a couple times that was really nice too. And so experiencing like all the seasons, I didn't know, for example, that the winter lasted for almost half the year. It was like six months of cold. There was too.

  00:21:48:20 - 00:21:52:06

  Speaker 3

  Much to me too.

  00:21:52:06 - 00:22:14:01

  Fabiola Lara

  I remember always thinking like, I've been up here now like five or six years. I remember always thinking like, just long coat is fine. It's only a couple months. Like who needs so? And then I'm like, Oh, it's half of the year. I needed an entire like I need multiple things because it's last so long. But in my mind it's just like November, December and January.

  00:22:14:23 - 00:22:15:19

  Speaker 3

  But that's not true.

  00:22:15:19 - 00:22:21:19

  So Lazo

  I mean, I was like, there's four seasons and 12 months is like three months in.

  00:22:21:19 - 00:22:25:03

  Speaker 3

  Exactly. But it doesn't work that way. Last so long.

  00:22:25:11 - 00:22:35:12

  Fabiola Lara

  This this is a warning for anyone that's trying to move from a tropical place to a place with seasons. It's it's winter is longer than you think.

  00:22:35:17 - 00:22:36:03

  Speaker 3

  Yeah.

  00:22:36:18 - 00:22:39:04

  Fabiola Lara

  But then it's beautiful when it's over. It feels amazing.

  00:22:39:06 - 00:22:58:07

  So Lazo

  Yeah. In, well, in winter there was not much sun, you know, it's very cloudy and rainy. And once the sun started coming out, I could notice how everyone is outside now. People really appreciate the sun. And that didn't happen because we've had sun, but now it's like, Yeah, I want to be in the park under the sun to it.

  00:22:59:09 - 00:23:03:00

  Fabiola Lara

  Exactly. Yeah. You have like a new appreciation. I'm like, I'm going to the beach.

  00:23:03:04 - 00:23:04:06

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, I'm going camping.

  00:23:04:06 - 00:23:30:07

  Fabiola Lara

  I'm going to go do all of the stuff because in a couple of months I can't even if I want to. So that is a new feeling. And I'm sorry you had to go through your first one. It's the worst. It's the worst one. I wanted to go back and talk a little bit about your family and your upbringing, because I know you mentioned that your parents were able to, you know, pay for your college and everything that comes along with it.

  00:23:30:07 - 00:23:37:05

  Fabiola Lara

  I read somewhere I can't tell you where because I don't even remember. I was googling so much that your parents are both doctors, is that correct?

  00:23:37:12 - 00:23:39:25

  So Lazo

  Yeah, they're both doctors.

  00:23:39:25 - 00:23:46:22

  Fabiola Lara

  So that is like a very traditional profession, right? Like you go to school, you become a doctor. You're a doctor forever.

  00:23:46:25 - 00:23:47:24

  So Lazo

  Yeah, exactly.

  00:23:48:22 - 00:24:03:16

  Fabiola Lara

  Do you think that their how was it to want to be an artist or did you always want to be an artist? Like what kind of trouble did you have figuring out your career given that your parents had such a traditional career?

  00:24:04:19 - 00:24:36:26

  So Lazo

  Well, I always like drawing, but I guess like every child, like drawing when we were all young and and but I kept doing it like when I was in high school. And I always doodling in classes and everything. But I never really consider being an artist or an illustrator. Until where? Until when I was in college, actually, because I started studying product design in El Salvador and because actually I wanted to be a fashion designer back then, but we didn't have that career.

  00:24:36:26 - 00:24:45:08

  So Lazo

  So I was kind of like the closest because there was a year where you like, so everything about fashion design. So I was like, okay, I'm going to study this.

  00:24:46:04 - 00:24:52:15

  Fabiola Lara

  And so you got as you got as close to it as you could. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Smart.

  00:24:52:25 - 00:25:16:07

  So Lazo

  Yeah. And then when I told them that they were they were pretty okay with it. You know, they, they have always been very supportive and they well, my dad made jokes like, okay, you know, well, I guess you're just going to live with us forever and you're going to take care of us. And I was like, okay, that's typical.

  00:25:16:15 - 00:25:17:12

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, that's right.

  00:25:18:13 - 00:25:45:27

  So Lazo

  Yeah. But yeah, he always supported me and I, I started with product design and the first year of college is where I realized what illustration was because I had never really heard that word or knew what it was. But the, the first year we shared a lot of classes with graphic design and that's where I realized and I was like, Oh, you know, this sounds really cool, but still I did two and a half years of product design.

  00:25:47:02 - 00:25:48:29

  Speaker 3

  Why? Why do you think you did that?

  00:25:49:24 - 00:25:56:28

  So Lazo

  I liked it, but I didn't. So then I had like the talent for it or that I would be capable to become an illustrator.

  00:25:58:03 - 00:25:59:00

  Speaker 3

  MM.

  00:25:59:14 - 00:26:03:27

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay, so you're saying so it was a little bit of like self-doubt, right?

  00:26:04:06 - 00:26:39:07

  So Lazo

  Yeah. And I mean, I was doing okay in product design, but then I just, I really didn't like the classes that I started having. So like, oh no, I don't want to do this anymore. And then I decided to change to graphic design. And again, my parents were, were very supportive of it. Um, and I changed and ever since I started going to graphic design classes, I just started drawing a lot like for every project, even if it wasn't an illustration class, I was always putting the illustrator and everything in branding, in I mean animation like all of it.

  00:26:39:27 - 00:27:06:22

  So Lazo

  And I started also posting like on social media on Instagram mostly. And yeah, I just, I started kind of getting followers somehow. I was going to expect to be met and people started asking me like if they could buy a print of my art. And that's the first time where I actually thought like, I could maybe have my own brand, you know, I can maybe make money with this.

  00:27:07:16 - 00:27:35:14

  So Lazo

  And so I started my own brand while I was in fourth year of graphic design, you know. Salvador So there is five years. So I started in fourth year. I started selling in this little market like random markets where everyone has a local market. Yeah, like someone selling soaps or someone selling food and I was there with was raised and some of that.

  00:27:35:14 - 00:28:00:01

  So Lazo

  So yeah. And so little by little, you know, I started doing that and then people from other countries were asking me and like if they could buy my products. And that was when I decided that I would open in Etsy shop. And it just kind of happened like naturally like all the growth, like all of this. I always say that it was maybe this thing a chance because I didn't plan any of that.

  00:28:00:09 - 00:28:00:18

  Speaker 3

  But.

  00:28:01:08 - 00:28:05:01

  So Lazo

  I have not planned my career at all. But I.

  00:28:05:20 - 00:28:07:00

  Speaker 3

  Just. Yeah, you.

  00:28:07:00 - 00:28:11:02

  Fabiola Lara

  Always just took the next step, right? And yeah. Now look where you are.

  00:28:11:22 - 00:28:28:01

  So Lazo

  Yeah. So that I really do believe that when you find something that you really love and enjoy doing and you have the opportunity to keep practicing and keep doing it, like the opportunity just come to you like they will because people will see like the passion that you have. And yeah, well you got to show it to some people can see it.

  00:28:29:04 - 00:28:55:24

  Fabiola Lara

  Yeah. You have to be putting yourself out there. I think that's a really like hard part of being an artist is like not only do you have to like make stuff all the time, but you also get to show it to people, which is a whole other part of the process so that people know what you're doing. And I think a lot of the times people do one or the other, you know, like they're showing up on the Internet, but they're not showing their art or they're making art but never showing it on the Internet.

  00:28:56:03 - 00:28:57:27

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, you know, it's hard.

  00:28:57:28 - 00:29:13:23

  Fabiola Lara

  Tough. Do you have how did you start? I know you said like you started your Instagram and it kind of took off. How did you kind of get the courage or did you even think about like sharing your art? How was that process for you?

  00:29:14:18 - 00:29:25:24

  So Lazo

  Well, I think it had to do with the fact that I am not like an extrovert person. Like I know I look a certain way, but like my personality is not loud at all.

  00:29:27:07 - 00:29:28:24

  Speaker 3

  And that is surprising.

  00:29:28:28 - 00:29:34:13

  So Lazo

  And yeah, it's just my my esthetic is loud, but not my personality.

  00:29:35:08 - 00:29:36:04

  Speaker 3

  And it's so funny.

  00:29:36:19 - 00:29:38:00

  Fabiola Lara

  My esthetic is loud, okay.

  00:29:38:08 - 00:29:38:18

  Speaker 3

  You know.

  00:29:40:04 - 00:30:08:03

  So Lazo

  And so I always had, like, a lot of trouble with expressing emotions or feelings. And that's basically why I started drawing. It was like sort of art therapy for me to get all these feelings out. Mostly negative feelings like sadness and anger and all of that. So when I started posting it was, it was just doodles with phrases or or things that I was thinking back then.

  00:30:08:13 - 00:30:30:04

  So Lazo

  And I guess that made it more relatable because people saw those things and they could be like, Oh, you know, that's how I feel to it. And that helped guide you into making a community on social media. So yeah, it was just I always call myself an emo person, very emotional.

  00:30:31:06 - 00:30:57:24

  Fabiola Lara

  I have I it's yes, I agree with you and I love that actually. I if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see I was like gasping because I wanted to ask you more about your immanence. And I know you're referring to it in the sense of like sharing your artwork and being vulnerable. So but when I'm talking about if we can take a little Segway, we'll come back to this topic about emotional art.

  00:30:57:24 - 00:31:19:10

  Fabiola Lara

  But I want to take a second to acknowledge your emo phase and maybe it's still your email phase. And I want to talk about it because I know you like allude to it a lot when you post you're like fashion outfits and tiktoks and stuff like that. So tell me, I want to know everything about your emotions because I feel like I had one.

  00:31:19:10 - 00:31:32:10

  Fabiola Lara

  I feel like a lot of people had one. It never ends, but it also kind of ends. So what were your favorite bands? What were your favorite like styles that you were doing? Tell me everything I wanted.

  00:31:33:13 - 00:31:33:23

  Speaker 3

  Yes.

  00:31:34:12 - 00:31:48:10

  So Lazo

  So we also had that that phase, you know, that emo phase. I guess I was maybe around maybe 15, 16 years old when Yeah. Everyone wanted to be me and I couldn't really.

  00:31:48:15 - 00:31:50:12

  Speaker 3

  Yeah.

  00:31:50:12 - 00:32:05:10

  So Lazo

  I can't really like fully get into it back then because I didn't have like resources or like options or shops where to get all of the cool stuff. So I think right now I'm basically dressing how 15 year old me would have one.

  00:32:07:19 - 00:32:09:15

  Speaker 3

  Is that I feel like that's the.

  00:32:09:15 - 00:32:31:14

  Fabiola Lara

  Full evolution, right? Yeah. Back then you couldn't. Now you can. Now you're in Berlin where it's even more accepted and like, comfortable. Oh, that's beautiful. I did want to shout out. You have one post here. I'm going to pull it up from April 28th, 2020. And then yet you're like nervous.

  00:32:31:14 - 00:32:34:05

  Speaker 3

  You don't know what it is now. It's the K.K..

  00:32:34:05 - 00:32:35:27

  Fabiola Lara

  Slider album cover.

  00:32:35:27 - 00:32:41:11

  Speaker 3

  Of The Panic at the Disco Fever. You Can't Sweat Out Beautiful.

  00:32:41:11 - 00:33:04:15

  Fabiola Lara

  I feel like that album was quintessential for, you know, budding emo and shine kids. I feel like, you know, it's controversial because there's, like, real emotion and then moves and it's a whole dilemma. But I just tell. Did you apparently you love this album. Have you listened to it lately?

  00:33:05:00 - 00:33:05:13

  Speaker 3

  I want.

  00:33:05:13 - 00:33:15:26

  So Lazo

  To. I never grew out of my faith. Honestly, I don't even know what new music is. I'm just listening to the same thing that I live in when I was a teenager, like.

  00:33:15:26 - 00:33:19:03

  Speaker 3

  I tell me, give me, give me three. I want to know.

  00:33:19:06 - 00:33:21:19

  Fabiola Lara

  Because I feel like we probably listening to the same things.

  00:33:21:20 - 00:33:28:07

  So Lazo

  Because I don't see my Chemical Romance Panic at the Disco like those are the top three and I've been listening to them lately as well.

  00:33:29:04 - 00:33:29:09

  Speaker 3

  Yeah.

  00:33:29:12 - 00:33:34:27

  Fabiola Lara

  So that's the that's the band. Were you on Tumblr when they were very popular?

  00:33:34:27 - 00:33:35:16

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, I.

  00:33:35:16 - 00:33:38:04

  So Lazo

  Was on Tumblr in that time as well.

  00:33:38:04 - 00:33:46:05

  Fabiola Lara

  Yes. Yes. That was like the Trinity. Like everyone those three were like ruling everything.

  00:33:46:05 - 00:33:53:12

  So Lazo

  Yeah. And actually, my Chemical Romance came here last month, so I went to see them for my first time seeing them live. And it was amazing.

  00:33:54:08 - 00:34:12:29

  Fabiola Lara

  I love that I saw them at like a Honda Civic. I don't know what tour here in the U.S. I saw them once. I think amazing Gerard way you know shut out and now he has comics and I haven't read the comics.

  00:34:12:29 - 00:34:14:16

  Speaker 3

  Yet but.

  00:34:15:04 - 00:34:15:06

  So Lazo

  I.

  00:34:15:27 - 00:34:16:12

  Speaker 3

  Remember.

  00:34:16:15 - 00:34:30:28

  Fabiola Lara

  I saw the show, but I haven't. Okay. So any emails listening to snow that we we fill you in we love you and yeah I feel like panic at the disco. That was one that I was like a little bit ashamed of telling people that I liked.

  00:34:30:28 - 00:34:32:13

  Speaker 3

  Really because.

  00:34:32:13 - 00:34:44:20

  Fabiola Lara

  They were, because it was like so exact like out boy, I feel like was respectable. My Chemical Romance was like a little bit gothy, but like, respected and panic at the disco was doing, like, circus. Oh.

  00:34:45:02 - 00:34:45:25

  So Lazo

  I love that.

  00:34:45:25 - 00:34:53:09

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, like. And that's, like, not respecting you. I feel like you love that. That's perfectly.

  00:34:53:09 - 00:34:54:14

  Fabiola Lara

  You like clown.

  00:34:54:26 - 00:34:55:02

  Speaker 3

  Yeah.

  00:34:55:06 - 00:34:57:05

  So Lazo

  Very comfortable and all of that.

  00:34:57:05 - 00:34:59:03

  Fabiola Lara

  Yes. So carnival.

  00:34:59:16 - 00:35:06:24

  So Lazo

  That. But now favorite album of them you know like the first one. The second one was good too, but the first one.

  00:35:06:24 - 00:35:14:19

  Fabiola Lara

  I agree with you so much. It's like first album, number one album, second album. You can play it while you're studying like that. Yeah, it's.

  00:35:14:20 - 00:35:17:06

  So Lazo

  Fine. And that they're like, Oh.

  00:35:17:09 - 00:35:24:26

  Fabiola Lara

  After that, forgettable, who cares? I actually I saw that panic at the disco. A Fever you can't sort out. Toure. I remember going.

  00:35:24:26 - 00:35:25:10

  Speaker 3

  Oh, yeah.

  00:35:25:10 - 00:35:32:12

  Fabiola Lara

  I was like begging my I didn't have any money. I was like, I have an older sister, though. She was ten years older than me. It's like, please, I need that.

  00:35:32:12 - 00:35:35:11

  Speaker 3

  Please, can you take.

  00:35:35:11 - 00:35:42:25

  Fabiola Lara

  And then I saw them like let's say three years ago, they did a tour and I went and it was.

  00:35:43:16 - 00:35:47:05

  Speaker 3

  Oh, wow, it was horrible because.

  00:35:47:08 - 00:35:48:17

  Fabiola Lara

  They only played new stuff.

  00:35:48:23 - 00:35:51:07

  So Lazo

  Which is. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like.

  00:35:51:07 - 00:36:15:15

  Fabiola Lara

  That. It doesn't matter now. Yeah. So they played like one minute of every song of a fever you can't sweat out. But it was like 10 seconds of it was like the chorus. It was crazy. So anyway. But I feel like now you are bringing all your emo influences from when you were a kid to your fashion. Now do you think this also influences your work?

  00:36:15:15 - 00:36:22:14

  Fabiola Lara

  I mean, I know you already said that your work is very vulnerable, but like, do you think esthetically that it influences your work?

  00:36:23:07 - 00:37:03:08

  So Lazo

  Yeah, I mean, a lot of my inspiration comes from the music that I that I hear. So a lot of that is from that I even made like specific illustrations based on certain lyrics out of them. So it does. And also I've always like this mix of making really fun and silly and cute art, but it makes it with something a bit more dark, maybe like sad or anger, like bad emotions, or a beat up things that I liked as a kid in emo bands have that esthetic, you know, they are a bit dark like the heart and sometimes like the blood.

  00:37:03:08 - 00:37:06:02

  So Lazo

  It was very, very out there.

  00:37:07:07 - 00:37:08:06

  Speaker 3

  In the.

  00:37:08:15 - 00:37:09:05

  So Lazo

  School. That's cool.

  00:37:10:07 - 00:37:11:16

  Speaker 3

  That's exactly.

  00:37:12:01 - 00:37:13:24

  Fabiola Lara

  Exactly I love it.

  00:37:14:01 - 00:37:24:06

  Speaker 3

  You don't know how excited I am and I want to talk to you about this forever. But I feel like there's going to be people who are like, what is what are you guys? Yeah, but I don't.

  00:37:24:06 - 00:37:25:14

  So Lazo

  Like emo band so.

  00:37:26:06 - 00:37:26:24

  Speaker 3

  Yeah.

  00:37:27:09 - 00:37:42:09

  Fabiola Lara

  That's horrible to not like emo bands. That's so sad. But I just have to agree with you so much. Like, they definitely mix. Like, I mean, I feel like maybe we're giving them a little too much credit. Like some of the lyrics are pretty bad back then.

  00:37:42:09 - 00:37:45:03

  So Lazo

  Yeah, that's true. And that they said, well.

  00:37:45:11 - 00:37:47:04

  Speaker 3

  No, no, no, it's.

  00:37:47:07 - 00:38:08:12

  Fabiola Lara

  A lot of misogyny happening. But you know, they did pair like emotion with like, you know, something a little bit more like aggressive or whatever which and you're pairing, you're saying vulnerable and deep feelings with something like cutesy and playful, but it's still like deep.

  00:38:08:29 - 00:38:09:10

  So Lazo

  Yes.

  00:38:10:13 - 00:38:33:18

  Fabiola Lara

  I love it. I love it. And you know, I was reading a ton about you. I'm going to say this a million times, but I know that you like you have on your website, you like to explore themes of feminism resistance, gender identity, sexual orientation, and combining that with themes of magic and cute characters. So why do you think that's important for you to do?

  00:38:33:18 - 00:38:39:00

  Fabiola Lara

  Like what compels you to want to do that?

  00:38:39:00 - 00:38:51:27

  So Lazo

  I think it's just basically a mixture of things that I've always liked as a child. One of my favorite things was reading books and my like my most special books were The Goosebumps Worms.

  00:38:52:24 - 00:38:56:02

  Speaker 3

  Yes, I yeah. Amazing.

  00:38:56:02 - 00:39:22:25

  So Lazo

  I've always been into that. So I like scary things. And as I started growing up and then I became a teenager and, you know, all of the witches stuff, I started getting into it like more. And then I guess it also had to do with my religious background in that I was in that Catholic school and I started getting into the whole mythology and demonology and getting into.

  00:39:23:25 - 00:39:29:04

  Speaker 3

  Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. Okay, okay, so big.

  00:39:30:08 - 00:39:32:23

  Fabiola Lara

  My mind is blown. But so, I mean, I'm.

  00:39:32:29 - 00:39:33:12

  Speaker 3

  It's.

  00:39:34:10 - 00:39:44:10

  Fabiola Lara

  It's to be expected, right? Like Central America. Latin America is very religious, so it's not that surprising. But I love that you're saying that that kind of drove you to the opposite.

  00:39:45:01 - 00:39:48:10

  Speaker 3

  Yeah. You're like, we're doing it.

  00:39:48:10 - 00:40:13:24

  So Lazo

  Yeah. It made me question, like, you know, like, why? Why everyone believing me? So why does everyone does this? And I guess I started exploring these themes and making them more lighter or more fun, just as a way of saying, you know, like, you have to take this seriously or like this of the devil, you know, making the devil, that character that's actually nice or fun.

  00:40:13:24 - 00:40:19:13

  So Lazo

  And so, yeah, this is a character that seemed more approachable.

  00:40:20:18 - 00:40:22:05

  Speaker 3

  What did you hear? I'm just curious.

  00:40:22:05 - 00:40:28:09

  Fabiola Lara

  Like, what did your family think of that? Because I feel like that's where you know, it a little tricky.

  00:40:29:00 - 00:40:49:06

  So Lazo

  Yeah. So, yeah, my mom is very religious. My dad is Catholic as well. But, you know, he's just Catholic. But my mom goes to church like every Sunday and all of that. And so she was just like, Oh, why do you like drawing demons or these witches? It was just like.

  00:40:50:03 - 00:40:50:26

  Speaker 3

  Right way.

  00:40:51:26 - 00:40:59:02

  So Lazo

  But they would see it like she didn't, like, told me, No, you can't draw that. But I was just like, that's just a little bit weird.

  00:41:00:03 - 00:41:02:28

  Speaker 3

  Let's see what on my favorite thing, right?

  00:41:02:28 - 00:41:37:06

  Fabiola Lara

  She's like, Maybe I won't buy this one, but I love that. I think it's like very common that like when you get kind of pushed religion onto you, whether it's Christianity, Catholicism, whatever religion gets pushed on to, naturally, you're like, I need space. I need, I need to like ask questions. And I think it's beautiful that you were able to do that through your artwork because a lot of people don't have the courage to maybe do that or maybe they're not in a safe place to do that.

  00:41:37:06 - 00:42:10:01

  Fabiola Lara

  Right. Like your parents were okay with it, you know? Yeah, it wasn't their favorite, but it was fine. Other people, maybe they have, you know, their entire entire family is like maybe going to church every Sunday. Then it gets really hard. Do you have any advice for people who don't know, like what to say with their artwork? Because I feel like for you it's very clear, like your voice in your art, aside from just the esthetic, it's like super clear that you're trying to speak about these, like really important topics, like we said, feminism, gender identity, sexual orientation, all of that.

  00:42:11:08 - 00:42:18:18

  Fabiola Lara

  But there are people who don't know what to say or they're scared to say it. Do you have any advice for like getting over that?

  00:42:20:05 - 00:42:41:15

  So Lazo

  Well, for the part of like not knowing what to say, I guess that's that has a lot to do with, like, self exploration, like knowing who you are. And it sounds easy, but I think that a lot of people, including myself, have struggle with that. Like who? Yeah. Who are you? It's like, what defines me? Why do I like?

  00:42:41:15 - 00:43:08:03

  So Lazo

  And so you have to first do that part, like actually get to know yourself and know what makes you happy and know your emotions in general. So it takes a lot, a lot of time, but you can do that as an exercise, I think, especially if you like, drawing You just start drawing the things that that you like or that make you happy or that you feel that you have inside.

  00:43:08:03 - 00:43:35:24

  So Lazo

  So I think that's how you start with that. I guess it's always good to write, you know, like writing if it's a diary or just random thoughts that you have. That also helps a lot in and for. Well, it's more difficult when you may you may know what you want to express, but like you said, you have many people around you or a context where you can't express it.

  00:43:35:24 - 00:43:59:11

  So Lazo

  Really? Yeah. In that case, I guess. Well, you could also use social media in a kind of an anonymous, you know, as a form of liberation, at least, and not having consequences in real life from people that might not agree with you or that really don't like what you're saying. So that's a way that you can do it.

  00:43:59:11 - 00:44:03:14

  So Lazo

  You just have to let it out. But that's the first thing like.

  00:44:03:14 - 00:44:04:05

  Speaker 3

  Lay it out.

  00:44:05:05 - 00:44:25:06

  Fabiola Lara

  Yeah, I feel like, yeah, phase one is like looking inward. It's like you said, journaling, exploring what compels you to make art, what your what you want to say with your work. Step two is putting it out there, but if you can't, doing it anonymously is a really good recommendation. Like I think Tumblr was a good one, right?

  00:44:25:06 - 00:44:49:05

  Fabiola Lara

  It was like pretty anonymous. You could be anyone there and Instagram and TikTok makes it harder to be anonymous, but there are ways that you can like navigated and keep it a little bit like obscure. So yeah. And then you can get a feel for if you like doing that, if you then eventually want to show your face when you're at a better place or whatever.

  00:44:49:06 - 00:45:11:03

  Fabiola Lara

  Yeah. So those are, those are really good tips. So, so thank you. So, so I think you just said like journaling was a really good way to kind of reflect a little bit and look inward at what you want to say. Do you have any creative routines that kind of keep you in this place where you can share your and express yourself through your work?

  00:45:11:03 - 00:45:17:08

  Fabiola Lara

  Like, are there do you journal every day? Like, I want to know more about your creative routine because mine is chaos.

  00:45:17:08 - 00:45:18:10

  Speaker 3

  So I want to know.

  00:45:19:16 - 00:45:43:08

  So Lazo

  It's not that organized. I think it's just like sometimes, yeah, randomly when I'm listening to music and sometimes there's just a lyric that gets to you and you're just like, Huh, you feel that? And then I just write it down. Or It used to happen a lot when I when I used to drive back home, when I was driving, I usually get like a lot of ideas and I just like wrote them on the phone as well.

  00:45:43:29 - 00:45:58:15

  So Lazo

  And yeah, it's not like a journal like I did this today or I felt this way today. It's more like random thoughts, random lyrics or things that I have read that I'm always writing down.

  00:45:58:15 - 00:46:11:24

  Fabiola Lara

  Beautiful. Do you have any other practice outside of like reflecting and coming up with ideas? Like, do you draw every day or do you do like what's your process for just creating?

  00:46:13:19 - 00:46:36:08

  So Lazo

  I used to draw every day when I was in college. Like when I started, yeah, I used to do it a lot, mostly in classes too, but after when I started the brand and there's also like a lot of things there that you have to take care of. And there's the part of having an online shop and organizing everything and taking photos and answering messages.

  00:46:36:08 - 00:46:55:12

  So Lazo

  And so right now it's not it's not that I draw every day, but maybe like at least three times a week. And when I do draw, make like one or two pieces at a time, like through illustrations, and that's how I, you know, I always have content to keep.

  00:46:55:13 - 00:46:56:17

  Fabiola Lara

  Both Yeah.

  00:46:56:17 - 00:47:20:24

  So Lazo

  But yeah, I don't do it every day anymore. And it is very different once you are working, then when you draw for yourself. For example, when I have to do like freelance projects, this is a bit more hard to start them and to actually you make them then when I'm just drawing something for myself or for my shop.

  00:47:21:14 - 00:47:23:09

  So Lazo

  So it depends on that as well.

  00:47:24:00 - 00:47:38:07

  Fabiola Lara

  Oh wow. That's a really good point. I feel like everyone is always like, Oh, the dream is to be a freelance artist for a lot of people. But the reality is that once you're freelancing, doing the client kind of sucks a little bit.

  00:47:39:13 - 00:47:41:01

  Speaker 3

  Like We both.

  00:47:41:01 - 00:48:05:19

  Fabiola Lara

  Love our clients, but showing up to do client work takes a lot out of you. I think even though showing up to do your own work can be just as challenging, right? Because you're like, What am I drawing? Who is it for? What is the purpose? Am I making this into product? You know, it can be you can get really caught up like making everything into a product to the point where you're not making like, you know, whatever personal free.

  00:48:05:22 - 00:48:11:09

  Fabiola Lara

  I don't even know how to say it, but with a client, it's like you have to do the thing that they want on time.

  00:48:12:19 - 00:48:15:09

  So Lazo

  And they're going to criticize your work.

  00:48:15:09 - 00:48:17:17

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, like, you know, that's a whole.

  00:48:17:17 - 00:48:46:28

  Fabiola Lara

  Other kind of courage to have, right, to be like making it for them. So that's a really good point. I think a lot of people fail to see that once you're a freelance artist and with a shop like yours, it really is like a lot more work than just drawing the design. Like there's so much more. So I want to know, like, what has been the challenges for you, the perks of having an Etsy store.

  00:48:47:17 - 00:48:49:14

  Fabiola Lara

  You've had it now, like you said, for seven years.

  00:48:50:18 - 00:49:10:25

  So Lazo

  Yeah, well, it's been quite a journey. Like I started with very small and simple things, you know, like prints and speakers and gardens and but I've always been into fashion like that. Never went away. So I wanted to put my illustrations in clothes as well. And that's where it started to get a little bit more trickier.

  00:49:11:12 - 00:49:11:27

  Fabiola Lara

  Yes.

  00:49:12:02 - 00:49:33:28

  So Lazo

  And in more complicated process, because, you know, so what I basically had to do every step of the process, for example, when I was making clothes or any other type of fabric product, I first had to go and buy the fabric and make sure it was a good fabric, depending on the type of broken it type of clothing.

  00:49:33:28 - 00:50:06:13

  So Lazo

  And then I would have to go to a printing studio where they printed the fabric. And then after I would have to go to, I work with a tailor had like a little tailor shop and he had like a little team and I would seamstresses as well. And he was the one that was in charge of of actually sewing the clothes or tote bags or whatever, all of that and they had to make like a little sample to make sure that it was okay.

  00:50:06:29 - 00:50:13:05

  So Lazo

  And then you made the rest of the clothes and then of course, try it on and make sure that it works.

  00:50:13:24 - 00:50:14:16

  Speaker 3

  And.

  00:50:15:18 - 00:50:37:13

  Fabiola Lara

  So much more that's like more involved than I even thought because I mean, on one hand, that's super cool that it's so like local and you know, you're involved with every step of the process. So you can like triple check everything you know, you like, I want to like this or I want it like that. But then me, how long were were these products taking?

  00:50:37:13 - 00:51:02:13

  Fabiola Lara

  Because it sounds like it could take a really long time before we keep on going with this amazing conversation, I just wanted to interrupt to let you know about something totally new that I'm doing with this season of Drawers in Spanish. This season, I decided to launch a patriot on. In case you don't know what Patron is, Patron is a way you can support creators and gain access to exclusive content.

  00:51:02:21 - 00:51:30:08

  Fabiola Lara

  So on the new draws in Spanish Patreon, you can access exclusive rewards like joining our Discord community, listening to extend it episodes, getting monthly prints and stickers mailed right to you, and even joining monthly drawing dates with me. If you want to be a part of all of that and so much more, become a patron of drawers in Spanish by heading to Patreon dot com slash drawers in Spanish.

  00:51:30:18 - 00:51:41:09

  Fabiola Lara

  That's patre0 and ecom slash drawers in Spanish. Of course I'll leave it linked below. So check it out.

  00:51:42:20 - 00:52:03:25

  So Lazo

  Yeah. I mean it could take to make maybe around three or four weeks. No, no, a little bit more. They've been on the quantity of the clothes and for that as well I had to like figure out the sizing. Yeah. So I had to kind of research around that as well and make sure that it's really like different sizes.

  00:52:04:10 - 00:52:19:19

  So Lazo

  And yeah, after that you have to take the photos of the products and you plan the photoshoots. And then when it goes to Etsy and you have to prepare the listings and write the descriptions and the prices and so that and then you.

  00:52:19:19 - 00:52:22:09

  Speaker 3

  Have the most immediate yeah.

  00:52:22:09 - 00:52:24:16

  So Lazo

  You have to prepare your clothes.

  00:52:25:17 - 00:52:27:17

  Speaker 3

  Oh my gosh, Instagram or whatever.

  00:52:28:05 - 00:52:29:28

  Fabiola Lara

  And then you have to actually ship it.

  00:52:30:23 - 00:52:32:06

  So Lazo

  In which that was.

  00:52:32:17 - 00:52:43:01

  Fabiola Lara

  Which is harder than it seems, I think because shipping seems easy because everyone is used to like Amazon. But it's very involved to fulfill orders.

  00:52:43:18 - 00:53:05:22

  So Lazo

  If it's only one person. Yeah, it really is a lot. I used to take sometimes like one day in the week to like pack everything and then usually on Friday I would go to the post office and send everything. And sometimes I went with this huge sack full of orders and everyone already knew me in the post office, but they were really nice.

  00:53:06:13 - 00:53:29:14

  Fabiola Lara

  Yeah, I mean, that takes a lot of commitment because now you can just, you know, use a third party and have your design printed and they fulfill it and that's so much easier when you are just starting out. And I, I bet you wish you had something like that back then or, you know, you took that route. But again, it's limiting, right?

  00:53:29:14 - 00:53:40:21

  Fabiola Lara

  So like the way you went, you can explore anything you can. You are working, right? You know who's making your clothing. That's like a big deal. But It takes so much effort, right?

  00:53:40:21 - 00:53:42:07

  Speaker 3

  Because you're, you know.

  00:53:42:12 - 00:53:49:08

  Fabiola Lara

  It's so much more work. So, you know, are you still doing that today? What's it look like now?

  00:53:49:08 - 00:54:15:18

  So Lazo

  Well, I well, I guess I started the opposite way. Like I started doing everything, like, very complicated. But I changed now because with the when coronavirus started and the pandemic, basically the whole country shut down. And so the the post office that was closed, no one could send anything. So I changed everything because I was how I was making a living.

  00:54:16:06 - 00:54:18:10

  Speaker 3

  Are you for real? The post office?

  00:54:18:10 - 00:54:20:27

  So Lazo

  Yes. It was like four months. It was closed.

  00:54:21:02 - 00:54:21:25

  Speaker 3

  In El Salvador.

  00:54:22:00 - 00:54:40:05

  So Lazo

  In the U.S. in December. And I was like a like my partner back then. He like knew a lot of stuff because he was also a designer and he was like, you know, there's these these thing that you can do that's called Dropshipping. And Yeah. And I was like, What's that?

  00:54:40:28 - 00:54:43:10

  Speaker 3

  You're like, Tell me more.

  00:54:44:03 - 00:55:08:27

  So Lazo

  I had no idea. And that's when I realized that I could just focus on the design, which is my favorite part, and it's the most fun part. And out of me that I started doing that, you know, working with a production partner where they print and make the program, they ship it themselves. It's so easy. And it was like a whole new world for me.

  00:55:09:15 - 00:55:09:28

  Speaker 3

  Oh, my.

  00:55:09:28 - 00:55:45:21

  Fabiola Lara

  Gosh. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes Dropshipping gets a little bit of criticism and I get it. But I also think, like for small artists, for independent makers, it makes so much sense because, you know, like what you were doing before having to figure out the sizing, having to figure out even like inventory, like how many of all of this do you need is a really big commitment when you're just starting out and even I think for a long time while you're so independent, it's really hard to navigate that in a way that's actually making you any money.

  00:55:46:06 - 00:55:47:00

  Speaker 3

  Because you can.

  00:55:47:00 - 00:56:12:23

  Fabiola Lara

  Invest so much and then, you know, it may not work for you or that design didn't work. So I just want to encourage anyone who's listening, who's like, I don't know about Dropshipping, check it out. It could be a really good avenue for you. Do you think like in the U.S. I can get stuff made locally and it's still kind of affordable, like for me to ship it out and stuff like from people nearby.

  00:56:12:23 - 00:56:26:11

  Fabiola Lara

  And because the post office again is also like really robust here, do you recommend dropshipping for people in Latin America, in El Salvador specifically? Like what's your point of view with that?

  00:56:26:11 - 00:56:46:06

  So Lazo

  Yeah, I definitely do, because that's the main thing. Like you said, investing in a product like before that, I had to think I'm going to put all this money in this to make making this quantity of a certain product that I'm not even sure if it's going to sell or if people are going to like it and it's a risk that you take.

  00:56:46:14 - 00:57:10:16

  So Lazo

  And I used to do that in there. There are some things that do sell and they sell price, but there are others that you just keep them like. I think back home there are still, you know, products from years ago that are still there in stores. So this really gives you more freedom and like to experiment and to just focus on the design part, especially if you're starting.

  00:57:10:16 - 00:57:21:13

  So Lazo

  I think that's a very important thing because it can help you define like what type of design do you want to do or what type of design works best for your audience, for example?

  00:57:22:05 - 00:57:30:23

  Fabiola Lara

  So are you still using Dropshipping how are you handling your orders today?

  00:57:30:23 - 00:57:57:16

  So Lazo

  Right now, yeah, I'm still using a production partner in Dropshipping because I'm still not that subtle here yet. So and since I'm going to German classes and I'm trying to figure out the basic stuff and everything, I don't have the time that I need to focus again completely on my shop. But for example, next year I do hope to be able to make another types of products because yeah, that's one thing.

  00:57:57:16 - 00:58:17:27

  So Lazo

  You can get bored if you keep doing the same thing for too long in the gallery. Try to do a bunch of all the products that they offer, like the whole catalog. So yeah, I want to experiment a bit more with the type of clothes that I want to make and with the type of products that I want to sell.

  00:58:17:27 - 00:58:44:12

  So Lazo

  And I started this here with my photo deck, which is like my latest thing work in yeah, with a movie background bunny directly with myself and preparing the deck and designing it. And right now I'm actually making another couple of products that are more special that hopefully I will have them in a couple of months. And yeah, which is different.

  00:58:44:12 - 00:58:51:26

  So Lazo

  So because it's not dropshipping anymore, I'm just like making things that are more special and not so generic. As with shipping.

  00:58:52:06 - 00:59:31:23

  Fabiola Lara

  Exactly like that is the big downfall of using like print on demand, which is also dropshipping. You have to select what they offer and print on what they offer. So that's really limiting, especially because you used to do it in a very custom way. So now it has to be, you know, you have the perks that it's easier to fulfill and to create on the go, but it's harder to get that unique stuff and I feel like for you with such a unique fashion sense and you have like a very specific vision, it has to get old after a while to only be creating in like the specific product offering that they have.

  00:59:32:02 - 00:59:51:04

  Fabiola Lara

  And I'm I'm so glad that you brought up your Reine Botero because I saw that it sold out already. So if you're listening, you can't get it right now. But maybe they'll be there'll be a restock eventually. But I want you to know. Yeah, like this is I looked at it, I was, I was looking at all the pictures.

  00:59:51:04 - 01:00:11:18

  Fabiola Lara

  It looks very custom, like the box, the cards, the packaging. So can you tell me, like, how long did it take for you to create that kind of product? Just so people understand the difference between a custom product like your tarot deck and, you know, a tote bag or a shirt from print on demand.

  01:00:12:27 - 01:00:19:15

  So Lazo

  Well, the first part, which was the design and like actually illustrating every card that took years.

  01:00:19:28 - 01:00:23:29

  Fabiola Lara

  Yeah, it's like that. So how many cards is it. I'm not that.

  01:00:24:15 - 01:00:27:20

  So Lazo

  There. 77 cards.

  01:00:27:20 - 01:00:28:15

  Speaker 3

  Oh yeah. Yeah.

  01:00:29:01 - 01:00:30:14

  So Lazo

  They're different. Yeah.

  01:00:30:15 - 01:00:32:15

  Fabiola Lara

  My eyes just like go blank.

  01:00:32:15 - 01:00:34:07

  Speaker 3

  That's so many cards. Yeah.

  01:00:34:07 - 01:00:59:04

  So Lazo

  It took me about six years maybe to finish the whole bag because it was a personal project, it wasn't something urgent or that I needed to do it fast. It was something that I enjoyed doing. So I took my time and maybe did like one or two cards each month, and that's how it started. I didn't even really thought that I would finish a whole deck, but it kind of happened too.

  01:00:59:18 - 01:01:05:17

  Fabiola Lara

  So how long did it take for you to actually produce the tarot card? Aside from the illustration work.

  01:01:06:19 - 01:01:25:23

  So Lazo

  It wasn't that long because I had like a clear idea of what I wanted. And in these cases, what's most important is just finding the right supplier. So I found a printing company and they already had offer like this section of playing cards. So they had experience with that. So that's very important.

  01:01:26:08 - 01:01:27:07

  Speaker 3

  Yes.

  01:01:27:07 - 01:01:33:27

  Fabiola Lara

  But yours has like holographic effect. Yeah, it has like all sorts of custom printing. So that's awesome.

  01:01:34:11 - 01:01:57:01

  So Lazo

  Yeah. That's the part of. Yes. Certain because you can see like their catalog and the services that they offer. So they yeah. That's where I saw like oh they could do holographic pages or details and all of that little stuff. So it's just the idea of putting it together in my mind was I wanted something, of course, rainbow and cute and special.

  01:01:57:01 - 01:02:19:09

  So Lazo

  And basically since I already had the cards, I just had to figure out the packaging as well. And it's the same thing that you see all the options that they offer. And then I decided that with mine I wanted like a magnetic leaf box. So it was like very small to open and it will look cute and have a pattern inside and everything.

  01:02:19:22 - 01:02:26:16

  So Lazo

  Yeah, everything to make it feel special because it is. It's probably one of my most special projects so far.

  01:02:26:16 - 01:02:44:17

  Fabiola Lara

  It makes it feel like really luxury to write like, wow, you know, it's perfect for a gift because I think with tarot you're supposed to, like, give them to people like you're not. I heard somewhere you're not supposed to. Like, it's like better if someone gives you the tarot deck, then if you buy it for yourself or whatever.

  01:02:44:18 - 01:02:47:07

  Fabiola Lara

  So I don't know. I don't know that much. That's just what I heard.

  01:02:47:07 - 01:02:47:20

  So Lazo

  Yeah. No.

  01:02:48:25 - 01:03:03:05

  Fabiola Lara

  So I think it's like. It's like a gift. It's like a popular gift item because it's like good energy or whatever. If someone gives it to you and yours is, like, so luxury that I feel like it makes a perfect gift. It's not just like, you know, in a little plastic box or whatever.

  01:03:03:05 - 01:03:20:28

  So Lazo

  So it's one of those things where, you know, even if the production will cost more, it's it's worth it because it's you just I don't want to make something. And just because it's cheap, you know, I want to make something that worth it. And then it's beautiful and people will get excited about it.

  01:03:21:20 - 01:03:37:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Definitely. I, I couldn't agree with you more sometimes, especially if it's like a passion project, it's like you don't, you know, obviously you care, but like you're willing to put a little extra money into it to make it seem to make it be everything that you want it. You know, you worked you worked on it for six years.

  01:03:37:11 - 01:03:40:00

  Fabiola Lara

  You weren't going to like cut corners at the very end.

  01:03:40:12 - 01:03:42:17

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, exactly. No, you may as well go all.

  01:03:42:17 - 01:03:42:27

  Fabiola Lara

  The way at.

  01:03:42:27 - 01:03:43:16

  Speaker 3

  This point.

  01:03:44:10 - 01:04:04:12

  Fabiola Lara

  So I love that. And I think, you know, it's cool that you are sharing like, yeah, sometimes you use print on demand, but sometimes you do custom stuff. I think that's like a really cool model to have because that way, you know, you're investing in the specific projects that you want to do, but then the other things can be a little bit easier.

  01:04:04:12 - 01:04:19:20

  Fabiola Lara

  So you have time to, you know, work on all the different projects that you will want to do. And one last thing I want to talk to you before you go. Is your new plushie. That is, you know, I think as we speak, it's still being funded, right?

  01:04:19:28 - 01:04:25:14

  So Lazo

  Yes. Yes, yeah. Know it's Cloud the clown cloud.

  01:04:26:03 - 01:04:26:15

  Speaker 3

  Yes.

  01:04:26:23 - 01:04:28:06

  Fabiola Lara

  Yes, cloud. The clown.

  01:04:28:06 - 01:04:29:22

  Speaker 3

  Cloud. I love it.

  01:04:30:11 - 01:04:42:00

  Fabiola Lara

  Can you tell me about your experience? Just like first working with make sure and then also like just coming up with the concept and designing. Have you ever done a plushie before?

  01:04:42:21 - 01:04:57:09

  So Lazo

  No, it's my first version. So I was very excited. I, I love flesh. So yeah, I've always wanted to do one and this was my first opportunity with it. So ever since they reached out, I was like, Yeah, definitely, let's do it.

  01:04:57:27 - 01:05:09:28

  Fabiola Lara

  Game on. I love it. It turned out beautiful. How, how did you actually design it? Because in my mind, going from like 2D to 3D just like, seems impossible.

  01:05:11:03 - 01:05:49:12

  So Lazo

  Well, first I had to decide on the character and for that I basically these like every corporation of my illustrations. And because there are some recurring characters or type of characters like I do a lot of floral silly cute things or rainbows or a cloud in cloud was from an illustration that I did for Pride last year. And yeah, I just I got excited about it because I saw the ones that they had available and I wanted something that was very different from the rest of plushies.

  01:05:49:21 - 01:06:10:14

  So Lazo

  And I had never seen like a plus, you of a cloud like that the way you yeah, maybe just the. HEADLEE Just like a cloud, but not like a character based on it. And so I decided to do that. And for the process, well, first you have to decide how you see it from the front, from the side, from the back and all of that.

  01:06:10:14 - 01:06:19:09

  So Lazo

  And I guess that that was just what I learned from college. I there was a class about that, basically like physical drawing.

  01:06:19:23 - 01:06:32:05

  Fabiola Lara

  That was a question I had in my mind was like all that. The stuff that you learn from product design in college must come in handy now that you're designing your own products right?

  01:06:32:05 - 01:06:53:09

  So Lazo

  Yeah, it does. But I mean, my drawings were not perfect at all, so it was just like a rough idea. But luckily, you know that the manufacturers in all of those companies, they are experts. So they know exactly how to translate your drawings into the final product. So it's not like it had a specific measurements or anything like that.

  01:06:53:28 - 01:06:55:28

  So Lazo

  So I just wanted to look this way.

  01:06:56:15 - 01:07:01:07

  Fabiola Lara

  And they like kind of help you make it 3D.

  01:07:01:07 - 01:07:14:20

  So Lazo

  Yeah, yeah. I just did the drawings of the views and they do like the 3D model in all of that stuff. And then they just made the sample and they send me photos and it was so cute. It was like, Yeah, it's perfect. There's no paint.

  01:07:14:21 - 01:07:16:18

  Speaker 3

  Needed. He's perfect.

  01:07:16:24 - 01:07:20:16

  Fabiola Lara

  Or I think it's they them, right. I really I mentioned that. Yes.

  01:07:20:21 - 01:07:22:06

  Speaker 3

  My, you know.

  01:07:22:14 - 01:07:23:04

  So Lazo

  Non-Binary.

  01:07:23:23 - 01:07:24:15

  Speaker 3

  Yes.

  01:07:24:15 - 01:07:31:14

  Fabiola Lara

  And he has like a0i keep saying it. They have like a sad eye and I have. Yeah. Oh I love it.

  01:07:31:14 - 01:07:36:00

  Speaker 3

  Clap, clap I yeah.

  01:07:36:00 - 01:07:52:29

  Fabiola Lara

  Cloud the clown cloud is so cute and I really hope that they get funded so you can make, you know, everyone's plushie dreams a reality. So this is this is the end of our beautiful conversation. I do have more questions for you, but I feel like.

  01:07:52:29 - 01:07:53:11

  Speaker 3

  This is.

  01:07:53:24 - 01:08:07:09

  Fabiola Lara

  The I've asked you plenty. You know, I have to do a take to some time. Is there anything like where can people support your work or where should they go you for the latest updates?

  01:08:08:17 - 01:08:16:08

  So Lazo

  Well, mostly I'm on Instagram and TikTok and Twitter and Tumblr and still I use Tumblr.

  01:08:16:11 - 01:08:22:08

  Speaker 3

  You do use Tumblr. I was looking at it. Do you auto post or like do you basically the same?

  01:08:22:12 - 01:08:22:24

  So Lazo

  I go.

  01:08:23:16 - 01:08:26:03

  Speaker 3

  Yeah, why did.

  01:08:27:01 - 01:08:42:17

  So Lazo

  I your program Tumblr but yeah Instagram we know like lately it's been an issue for so many artists like the algorithm and all of that. So we both, you know, I'm still using it and hopefully it will get better and they will fix that.

  01:08:43:01 - 01:09:02:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Yes. Yes. And you've been crushing it at TikTok. I've been seeing your tiktoks. It's amazing. I feel like, you know, if you're listening, definitely go to those tik first because I feel like it's a me. That's where you will get like, you know, like a, like a real 3D video experience.

  01:09:02:24 - 01:09:03:12

  Speaker 3

  Of every.

  01:09:03:28 - 01:09:08:12

  So Lazo

  Is more, more silly though. It's more like more on the styling and stuff. But yeah.

  01:09:08:22 - 01:09:10:28

  Speaker 3

  Okay, I guess you're right. You're right. But I.

  01:09:10:28 - 01:09:12:03

  Fabiola Lara

  Feel like that's still.

  01:09:12:03 - 01:09:13:01

  Speaker 3

  Like your creative.

  01:09:13:01 - 01:09:26:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Expression. So go check out so everywhere including including their Etsy shop. So go check it out. And once again, so thank you so much for your time. Thanks for your patience.

  01:09:26:11 - 01:09:27:26

  Speaker 3

  With all the technical hiccups.

  01:09:28:21 - 01:09:39:00

  Fabiola Lara

  And things for. Yeah, just like being here. I know that you are in Berlin, so there's a time. So I just really appreciate it and I can't wait to see you grow everywhere.

  01:09:39:29 - 01:09:42:06

  So Lazo

  And I think it was really nice meeting you, too.

  01:09:42:20 - 01:10:12:01

  Fabiola Lara

  All right. That's all I have for you today. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with illustrator, author and tattoo artist. So? So if you haven't already, please check out their tik tok their Instagram. Just follow add sonya lazer underscore or just check the link in the show notes. There'll be link right to their social media handles. Now before you go, I have to remind you to hit subscribe to Draws in Spanish.

  01:10:12:01 - 01:10:34:09

  Fabiola Lara

  If you like this episode subscribing is totally free and really helps me out and helps the show out so I can keep making it for you. If you want to connect with other Latinx artists in our [Draws in Spanish] community, please head over to our Patreon My Patreon for [Draws in Spanish] so you can join our Discord Channel and access a ton of other amazing perks.

  01:10:34:28 - 01:10:47:25

  Fabiola Lara

  That's all I have for you now at La Proxima. Thank you for being here. Ciao, amigos.