Minisode #3: How to Collaborate with Other Artists

Episode Summary:

On today's minisode, I'm talking about collaboration - something that's super important but overlooked by artists! I've collaborated with a lot of artists through the podcast, and I wanted to share my four stages of collaboration with you all. First up, we have outreach - make sure you're genuine friends with the person you want to work with, or at least interact with them like a real friend would. Next, ideation - come up with an idea that's fun and fair for both sides, and make sure it aligns with both of your values. Then, collaborating - make sure the workload is equal and set a timeline that works for both of you. Finally, publishing and promoting - promote the project together and always give credit where it's due.

I hope this episode inspires you to collaborate with your art pals, and if you have any questions about collaborations then please call or text me at 305-985-3729 with your follow-up questions and I'll answer them in the next episode.

Episode Links

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🍊 Host Links: Follow Fabiola on Instagram, Youtube, & TikTok

☎️ Caller Links: Danny Brito, Hallye Webb, & Nate G.

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  00:00:00:01 - 00:00:27:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Hello, everyone! You're listening to [Draws in Spanish]. I'm your host, Fabiola Lara. I'm an illustrator and podcaster based in Philadelphia and on [Draws in Spanish}, I chat with Latinx visual artists and designers to discuss everything from their identity and culture to their creative process and work. This episode is actually a miniseries, so it's not our regular interview episodes where I'm hosting a guest on the show.

  00:00:27:20 - 00:00:47:13

  Fabiola Lara

  This is just a mini episode that I'm trying out and testing out. So if you're liking the mini skirts, please let me know on Instagram, on TikTok, or wherever, wherever you're contacting me. Go ahead and let me know if you're enjoying these mini episodes so I can keep making them for you in this mini. So I actually want to talk about collaboration.

  00:00:47:19 - 00:01:15:04

  Fabiola Lara

  In honor of my recent collaboration with Raul and Ivan from Grupo de Autoayuda de Dibujo on the last episode of [Draws in Spanish] I figured it was a good time to, like, talk about this topic because that was a international collab, and so I wanted to share my thoughts on this. As an artist, I really believe there are four crucial stages to collaboration that you should consider before starting a creative project.

  00:01:15:11 - 00:01:34:05

  Fabiola Lara

  And I want to dive into what those four factors are that you should keep in mind when you want to collaborate with another person. I figured this would be the perfect time to talk about it because aside from working with Ivan and Raul, I have also sort of collaborated with like 20 to 30 artists over the last few years for each one of these podcast episodes.

  00:01:34:05 - 00:01:48:13

  Fabiola Lara

  You know, like those are little collaborations of my own each and every time. So here we go. Here are the four stages of collaboration, according according to me. Okay, So there's a lot of stuff out there on the Internet. This is just what I think are the important pillars.

  00:01:59:02 - 00:02:25:19

  Fabiola Lara

  So the first one, when you're thinking about starting a collaborative project, you need someone to collaborate with, right? So your collaborators and before they become your collaborators, they're basically just people that you may know or people that you know of. So my first step before you actually reach out to those people is to like, be genuine friends with them and genuinely support them.

  00:02:26:06 - 00:02:42:22

  Fabiola Lara

  So if you're already friends with the person that you want to collaborate with, amazing, you're done. You can skip to the next pillar. But a lot of people out there, maybe you follow someone that you want to collaborate with, someone whose work you admire, someone whose just vibe you admire and you want to be, you want to work with them.

  00:02:42:22 - 00:03:01:09

  Fabiola Lara

  You want to be more friends with them. I think that's totally valid. Like, I don't I don't discourage that at all. I think Internet friends are like basically the new normal, so I don't want to discourage that at all. But I do think that that there are some things you can do to be less creepy, less weird about it.

  00:03:01:10 - 00:03:23:12

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay. Like this. Just take it for me. If you want to collaborate with someone that you're not like real life friends with, but maybe your internet pals and you just admire them, I recommend that before you hit them up with this potentially unhinged collab proposal which you will be unhinged if they continue to listen. You kind of like just support them and befriend them a little bit more.

  00:03:23:22 - 00:03:43:07

  Fabiola Lara

  And if this doesn't come naturally to you, then maybe you're not. You're not the collaborator type. Okay, So if this seems weird to you, then don't do it. But I would say that if there's someone you want to collaborate with and your internet friends but you like, never comment on their posts, you never reply or interact with their stories.

  00:03:43:12 - 00:04:20:18

  Fabiola Lara

  You never like engage with them on the Internet. It's going to come off kind of phony if then you invite them to collaborate with you because you're like not actually engaging with them in the content they're putting out there. But then you are like, DMing them for a favor or offer to work with them, right? So that's kind of like kind of disconnected and disjointed and isn't going to be real or like feel genuine if you plan on hitting someone up for a collaboration because you genuinely like their work, be genuinely wanting to interact with their posts in a thoughtful and genuine way.

  00:04:21:04 - 00:04:42:07

  Fabiola Lara

  So for example, commenting on their post, liking their posts, replying to their stories, just being friendly back to what they're putting out there. Basically, you want to give off the energy that you want to receive. And I think a lot of the times, because we're so used to Instagram, we're so used to Tik Tok and it's almost kind of like just the way it is to be online.

  00:04:42:20 - 00:04:59:17

  Fabiola Lara

  I feel like we've all become really, like, stingy with our with our likes, like in giving out comments, like we are really precious with them. Like I'm not even though I like my friends posts, like maybe I'm scrolling too fast, I'm not going to stop and like, yeah, I'm not going to stop and comment. And it's like, why not?

  00:04:59:17 - 00:05:18:00

  Fabiola Lara

  Like this is social media. The whole point is to be social. So just like use that tool. Now, I do not want you to be fake. Okay? So if you don't like something, then don't comment on it. But I do think like if you are wanting to collaborate with this person, that probably means you do genuinely like what they're putting out there.

  00:05:18:08 - 00:05:39:15

  Fabiola Lara

  Then you should you like say it voice that support them like people. You have to remember that people really appreciate support and kindness, and especially now when everyone is putting like so much effort into social media. Like it feels really good to have it recognized and to have people be like, Yeah, this is good. Like, thank you for putting the time into this.

  00:05:40:04 - 00:05:58:12

  Fabiola Lara

  So if you want to collaborate with someone and you've kind of like been on the sidelines for a while supporting them, maybe be like a little bit more of a fan, just like, put yourself out there, be a supporter. I don't want you to be fake or anything, but like if you already like their work, when's the last time you let them know?

  00:05:58:12 - 00:06:15:15

  Fabiola Lara

  You know what I mean? Like, it's so rare that we let people like real, real life friends know that we love and support them and like, want the best for them. And I think we even forget to do that online sometimes with the people that we follow. Because like, Oh, you and I are mutuals. Like we've been mutuals for ten years.

  00:06:15:15 - 00:06:38:09

  Fabiola Lara

  Like, what does it matter if I like this post or not? And it's like, no, people really do appreciate that. And it does like speaks volumes that you're there and you're showing up for them. So I would remember that. I just think it kind of comes off weird if you like, hit someone up on email or DM and you've like literally have it like their last few posts, but now you're proposing like a new project for them.

  00:06:38:09 - 00:07:00:00

  Fabiola Lara

  It just, I don't know, it doesn't read right to me. I feel like it's bad manners, so just consider, consider that. Okay, But don't be fake. Do not be fake. This is not permission to go be fake. Okay, then the next thing you need to consider right before you. So in the outreach phase, you need to a be genuine friends, make friends with them.

  00:07:00:14 - 00:07:21:00

  Fabiola Lara

  Then the next thing is you need to be realistic. Okay, so before you contact someone, think about if they are at the same stage of their career as you are for this project that you want to propose. Because I'm assuming here that you want to propose a collaboration, whether you have the idea or you want to work with them on the idea you're proposing working together.

  00:07:21:00 - 00:07:58:02

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay, So are you at the same stage in your career as them? So this isn't to say you can't work with a super huge artist. Whether that's like they have a prolific client list or a are like a ton of followers. But think about your experience in your level of development. So for example, if you have just like a year of illustration work under your belt, mate, maybe you've never worked with a client before and you want to collab with an artist who has like a decade of experience and a decade of client work and like has been, you know, has solo shows at the MoMA, then I don't know if coping with them is

  00:07:58:02 - 00:08:19:09

  Fabiola Lara

  necessarily realistic or fair, really, right? Because maybe the proposal that you're going to propose is going to take more time for them or you know what I mean? Like they have a ton of experience to bring to the table and you don't have very much experience to bring to the table that doesn't really seem like a fair collaboration and like an equal collaboration, which is what I'm thinking about.

  00:08:20:04 - 00:08:41:18

  Fabiola Lara

  So it's not because you're not worthy, but it's not just like the same amount, equal amount of experience being brought to that project. So if you're an animator with ten years of professional experience and you want to collaborate with an illustrator who has ten years of professional experience, I think that's totally fair and just. You get to animate their illustration work, which maybe you haven't done.

  00:08:41:18 - 00:09:11:07

  Fabiola Lara

  Maybe you've only done animations for like, I don't know, some sort of fancy commercial, but you haven't actually done animations for an illustrator, for an illustration or an illustrated project that might be a cool collab for you to do. And you both bring like the same level of experience to the table. I think that's just something to consider because if you don't consider that, it's just not going to feel fair and like a a worthwhile collaboration for both parties.

  00:09:11:13 - 00:09:27:15

  Fabiola Lara

  That's the thing. When it's unequal, it's like, is each party getting the same thing out of the project? If one person's bringing like all of this experience and the other person's not bringing a ton, I feel like it's not going to be a worthwhile collaboration for both of you. Like, one of you might benefit way more than the other, and then that's just not fair.

  00:09:28:14 - 00:09:44:20

  Fabiola Lara

  And putting fairness aside, I just don't think it'll happen. Like I don't think Small would agree to that. Right? So, like, maybe it's not fair, but someone would agree. I just don't think someone would agree because why would you agree to a project that you feel like you're putting way more into it, that you're getting out? That just sounds like a bad group project, you know what I mean?

  00:09:45:14 - 00:10:02:03

  Fabiola Lara

  So be realistic about who you can collaborate with. The last thing is that you have to leave your pride at the door. So a caveat to all of this is just by like engaging with someone and trying to befriend them and just by pitching them up, an idea that you think is good and fair, let's say, and realistic.

  00:10:02:10 - 00:10:19:17

  Fabiola Lara

  It doesn't mean that they have to respond to you or you're entitled to a response or you're entitled to anything because especially if you don't know them personally, you don't have like a rapport with them. You're basically just asking them for their time. And that's like the most valuable thing we have on this world, right, is just like time and energy.

  00:10:20:03 - 00:10:45:08

  Fabiola Lara

  And just because you email someone doesn't mean that you're owed a response. Personally, like I try to respond to everyone that I can, but sometimes it's just like there's other things going on in people's lives that that's just the reality of it. So you're not entitled to a response and you have to be okay with that. And I think you can follow up with someone once after a week, maybe twice after two weeks.

  00:10:46:00 - 00:11:03:23

  Fabiola Lara

  But at a certain point you're going to have to take the hint. If someone doesn't want to work with you, whether it's for a collaboration, for a commission or for anything really, Right. Like commenting on someone's post doesn't mean they have to reply to you if you're going to get mad that they didn't reply to your comment. I don't think like your understanding the relationships here.

  00:11:03:23 - 00:11:28:11

  Fabiola Lara

  Like just, you know, it'd be nice but you can't be. You can get butthurt. Okay, so that's my those are great tips for outreach. Okay. Look for someone that you're a fan of, try to be a genuine fan, then be realistic about your approach for contacting them. Be realistic about, you know, the person. If they're a good match for you to collaborate with and leave your pride at the door.

  00:11:28:17 - 00:11:48:18

  Fabiola Lara

  The second pillar of collaboration after outreach, kind of assessing who you want to work with is ideation. So let's say you found someone that you're like, I think they're awesome. And I think like we're on equal footing here. Maybe I could collaborate with them. I want to think of a core project. So first you're going to have to think of a really cool idea to pitch to them.

  00:11:48:18 - 00:12:05:10

  Fabiola Lara

  This is me. Assuming you're not just friends with them already and you're like, Let's collab at a coffee shop and come up with something together, right? That's like a whole different process. I'm assuming here, if you want to collab with someone that like someone kind of new that you barely know or you're getting to know. So I think she would like to work with someone.

  00:12:05:11 - 00:12:25:04

  Fabiola Lara

  You have to make sure, like I said, that both sides of the collaboration are equal for each of you. Like take the equal amount of work for like equal amount of time. So for example, say, going DME or emailing someone and saying, Hey, I have an idea for a book, do you want to draw it for me? And that's a collaboration.

  00:12:25:13 - 00:12:48:08

  Fabiola Lara

  I don't think that's necessarily fair because like, that's basically just asking for free labor for your book under the disguise of it being like a collab one. It's not, that's not cool, right? So if that's like your idea for a collab in to rethink that because remember you're asking someone to work with you. So to make sure your idea is fun and fair to the amount of work that both parties are delivering.

  00:12:48:16 - 00:13:05:03

  Fabiola Lara

  So if you're an illustrator, you know you know that you get commonly approached to draw someone's book for free. But that's not really fair because unless you're a huge publisher or an author who's who's to say you're going to get any rewards, reward for your effort and artwork like it just doesn't really make sense for the illustrator to take that project on.

  00:13:05:11 - 00:13:26:07

  Fabiola Lara

  But if you have an idea where it's like, you know, you're a poet and you want to collaborate with this illustrator who usually does does like poetic illustrations, let's say the same vibe, but they don't use any text. And you, you know, have maybe like the same years of experience, right? So you're been a poet for a really long time and they've been illustrator for a similar amount of time.

  00:13:26:16 - 00:13:48:21

  Fabiola Lara

  Maybe there is a world where you can collaborate if they've they've expressed their desire to do this kind of thing. Just make sure that what you're asking from them takes the same amount of work, right? So if if you write poems really quickly and you want them to create this like ten foot by ten foot painting, oil painting for your poem, I don't know, that seems a little bit uneven, right?

  00:13:48:21 - 00:14:08:21

  Fabiola Lara

  The amount of time and effort, dedication, resources that I'll have to take. So just consider that. And there's not a hard and fast rule for this. You guys just like think, think logically here. If you're asking someone for free labor or if it's like a genuine collaboration where both parties bring something to the project to make the project even better, like they can't do it without you sort of thing.

  00:14:09:02 - 00:14:22:08

  Fabiola Lara

  An illustrator can kind of write a book without you. If they wanted to like a picture book, I could see that happening. A lot of illustrators write their own picture books, so just think about that. Would they be able to do this without you or would you make their lives easier? Like, is this going to benefit the both of you?

  00:14:23:05 - 00:14:53:13

  Fabiola Lara

  Another thing that I want you to consider within the pillar of ideation is values. So make sure something aligns with both people's values. Are all parties values. So if you pitch a collaborative that doesn't align with the other person's values, that's just going to be like an instant no, Right. So if you pitched me a collab about this comic that you want me to illustrate or I don't know, we're going to do a dual comic, so we're both going to create comics that respond to each other about how sharp dogs are, the most horrible dogs on earth.

  00:14:53:23 - 00:15:10:23

  Fabiola Lara

  I would instantly say no because I have a Sharpie and I love my my dog, Lucy. I love her so, so, so much. So I would never do that. Okay, So that's just a small example of why, you know, it's just not going to make any sense for me. So think about that and then for actually pitching, right?

  00:15:10:23 - 00:15:29:08

  Fabiola Lara

  So you have an idea. It's like fair. It's even both people bring something amazing to the table to make this idea even better. So like not one person could execute it on their own and it would be just as amazing now if you actually want to pitch this idea. So I'm putting this under the idea. The pillar of ideation, because I think it's part of it.

  00:15:29:16 - 00:15:48:01

  Fabiola Lara

  But to actually pitched the idea, if you have an open line of communication with this person already that you want to collaborate, then just contact them through there. But if not, I always say like make it formal, put it into like an email that like you actually thought out and don't be too wordy, don't pitch like an essay, your emails an essay.

  00:15:48:01 - 00:16:08:02

  Fabiola Lara

  Long Honestly, nobody wants to read that super long email. It's just too much like get to the point already. It's kind of rude in my opinion. Is already kind of rude to send a really long email because now you're making me put all this thought into this email. You should have made it easy for me to respond. So I feel like if you want someone to respond, be clear, be concise.

  00:16:08:03 - 00:16:30:02

  Fabiola Lara

  Get to the point so that you're like not taking a ton of their time just on the fluffy stuff. Okay, so you know, pitch them something in like five sentences and let them answer if they're interested. Remember that just because you're pitching something doesn't mean you're entitled to a response. So give them time and space to respond and you can always kindly follow up once or twice.

  00:16:30:09 - 00:16:47:12

  Fabiola Lara

  And then, you know, at a certain point you got to just take the hit. And I just want to be transparent here. I've actually pitched a lot of different artists for the show and like I would say of the artists that you've seen on the show, I have pitch to double that and I just don't get a response from some artists.

  00:16:47:12 - 00:17:04:12

  Fabiola Lara

  I never hear from them. No matter how I try to contact them, I try to make it as as easy as possible for them to respond. And I don't hear anything and I just can't take that personally. Like, obviously I'm bummed, like I'm bummed I want to work with that person and they're not getting back to me. That's like, it's not fine.

  00:17:04:12 - 00:17:26:16

  Fabiola Lara

  Some fun feeling, but like I can't have a chip on my shoulder about it. It's just kind of like, All right, you know, moving on. You have to just move on now for the actual process of collaborating together and working together. So make sure, like I said, it's equal amount of work. So if it's your idea, actually maybe even you do a touch more work.

  00:17:26:16 - 00:17:44:03

  Fabiola Lara

  So like, for example, when I have guests on the show, they're collaborating with me for that episode. But the whole show is my idea. It's my thing, right? I don't really ask for much of labor from them other than showing up, but I'm taking on the editing, the promotion, all those things. If they can promote it on their end.

  00:17:44:05 - 00:18:03:07

  Fabiola Lara

  Amazing. I always appreciate that because I pour so much like heart into the show. But if they don't like, I can't take that personally. So remember to be realistic for the amount of work you're asking the other persons or parties to do so that it feels fair and everyone's kind of like equally invested, right? Not one person's more invested than another.

  00:18:03:07 - 00:18:24:02

  Fabiola Lara

  So the other part of collaborating, like aside from making sure it's like everyone has a fair amount of work, you know, think about your worst group project. You don't want it to be that right. So aside from that, set a timeline that you both agree on. So sometimes that means getting on a Zoom call and working out the tiny details, getting on a regular phone call and working out the tiny details, figuring out who's on what.

  00:18:24:02 - 00:18:42:02

  Fabiola Lara

  That way you don't like let things drop or someone feels like they're picking up a ton of slack, but maybe they're picking up a ton of slack because they didn't know the other person didn't know that those things were on the to do list. Right? So you have to like, break out the two do's designate who does what and then have a way to communicate with each other.

  00:18:42:02 - 00:18:54:16

  Fabiola Lara

  So be like, oh, if I have any trouble hit you up on text or I'm going to hit you up on DMS or I'm going to email you like just the way that you guys confirm with each other, like this is how we're going to reach out to each other if something goes wrong. So you have open communication.

  00:18:55:17 - 00:19:15:15

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay, so those things are going to help you actually do the work. I can't tell you what the work is because like everyone's project going to be different. But let's say you finish the project now you're on to publishing and promoting it together. This is my last pillar, the fourth pillar publishing and promotion. So promote it together. So promotion for the project isn't just up to the other person.

  00:19:15:15 - 00:19:35:06

  Fabiola Lara

  Once you both agree to work on the project together, I really think you guys should own it and promote it fairly. So that's what that's one post each or one tick talk like that's all to you guys. But just like promoting it together and sharing in the like in the publication of the thing, right? So it doesn't seem like it's one person's project or the other.

  00:19:35:06 - 00:19:52:02

  Fabiola Lara

  I think like, I guess me I don't know if it's just me, but I think with collaboration, especially as artists, we're so used to owning things all on your own or like, This is my art, but I feel like if you're going to collaborate with someone, you have to be clear that like, this is our project and this is what I brought to the table and the other person brought to the table.

  00:19:52:11 - 00:20:07:06

  Fabiola Lara

  So I think this goes on to giving credit, which is my last point here as a part of publishing and promotion is to always give credit. So if you're going to post about it and the other person doesn't because they're too busy, so give them credit. So let it be known that they worked on X, Y, Z of this project.

  00:20:07:06 - 00:20:23:07

  Fabiola Lara

  What they brought to the table. Like, I think you guys should just establish that and be clear about it because isn't that the worst feeling in a group project? If someone's like, Oh yeah, I wrote the essay, but really they just wrote the outline and nobody like actually the person who actually wrote it like, doesn't get dismissed. I don't know.

  00:20:23:08 - 00:20:48:15

  Fabiola Lara

  Just think about that. You want the collaboration to feel rewarding for everyone, and I think a lot of that is just giving credit. On that note, just remember like to always give credit, right? So if you put that project into your portfolio because you're really proud of it, I think you should. That's amazing. But you should mention in the like about for that project that you worked with someone and what they brought to the table and give them credit because otherwise it's kind of just it's kind of shady, you know?

  00:20:48:15 - 00:21:14:18

  Fabiola Lara

  I don't want anyone to be shady here. So that's my last thing with the publishing and promotion pillar, which is the last pillar. All right. Wow. Okay. So I feel like I've told you everything that I think about when I'm going into a collaboration with someone. And, you know, it's not always so methodical. Honestly, like a lot of the times, I already have art friends and I'm like, Oh yeah, I want to do this project.

  00:21:14:18 - 00:21:30:11

  Fabiola Lara

  And they actually already know how to do that thing. So maybe we should collaborate. And then it's like better for both of us. And it's not this big mastermind thing. I'm just giving you this pillar so you can like double check before you reach out to someone. What you should consider before getting into it, what you should expect.

  00:21:30:21 - 00:21:55:08

  Fabiola Lara

  So these are just my four pillars. And just to recap, it's outreach. So it's all the things I said about how to pick a person to collaborate with or a party to collaborate with ideation. So how to update the idea, what to consider in terms of values and how to pitch it actually working together in collaboration. So making sure you guys establish a timeline and designate all beet juice.

  00:21:55:18 - 00:22:16:09

  Fabiola Lara

  And then the last pillar, which is publishing and promotion, so promoting it together and giving credit. All right, friends, I really hope that that was helpful for you guys. If you have any questions about collaboration, then please call or text me at 3059853729 with your follow up questions and I'll be sure to answer them in the next mini episode.

  00:22:16:20 - 00:22:41:06

  Fabiola Lara

  I hope this episode inspired some of you to collaborate with your art pals and find community and work together to make even bigger and better projects. And don't forget, you can subscribe to the show on YouTube by heading to at @fabiolitadraws. You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok by going to at @fabiolitadraws. If you want to connect with other Latinx artists in the [Draw in Spanish] community and join our Thursday co-working sessions.

  00:22:41:06 - 00:23:00:02

  Fabiola Lara

  We just switched them over to Thursday, but if you join the Discord, it'll tell you every day that we have. Coming up, head over to DrawsinSpanish.com/Chat t to join the server and join our co-working sessions. And if you want to support the show and get extended episodes, then head over to Patreon.com/DrawsInSpanish

  00:23:00:12 - 00:23:06:12

  Fabiola Lara

  Okay, that's all I have for you. I hope this is helpful and call it text me if you have any questions by.